It’s only 2-1/2 weeks until Election Day 2010, and it’s not easy to find something that Americans agree on these days.
Referencing our own backyard, the Philadelphia Inquirer today refers to the Drucker-Kampf Race as a ‘battleground house race’. With just a couple of weeks remaining until Election Day, the rhetoric continues at a heightened level with much at stake . . . both sides dissatisfied with the other and both parties anxious to see their candidate win. The growing tension is recognized everywhere we look . . . I am receiving nearly daily robocalls from campaigns in addition to regular candidate mailings.
We turn on the news and there is more mud-slinging and political divide. We have witnessed the emergence of the Tea-Party Movement, describing themselves as a “community committed to standing together, shoulder to shoulder, to protect our country and the Constitution upon which we were founded.”
Locally, the Valley Forge Patriots website claims Tea-Party Conservative status and the goal of their organization “to protest and act to remove: out of control federal spending, impending huge taxation of ALL Americans, governmental and corporate fraud and abuse, and legislation which will reduce our Freedoms, Invade, and Control our Personal Lives.” The group honors Glenn Beck and asks that supporters join their weekly mall rallies on Rt. 202, King of Prussia, noon to 3 PM each Saturday. I find myself struggling to understand some of the tea-party viewpoints; but it is apparent that others do support and are following their cause.
Anger, hatred, discontent . . . it’s so hard to see this in America today. Will the results of Election Day 2010 somehow ‘right’ the wrongs of the past and satisfy those looking for a change? Will Americans wake up the morning after Election Day and believe that the government will now self-correct to their liking with the election results? Will having their candidate win on Election Day suddenly improve their quality of life? Will the partisan political divide somehow lessen based on who wins the election?
Interesting questions . . . especially, as we look at our own battleground and the Drucker-Kampf state house race.
Pressure on for Pa. midterm . . . The balance of power in Harrisburg is at stake, and both parties are fighting hard to help their chances.
By Angela Couloumbis
Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau
HARRISBURG – Outside the halls of the Capitol, in the main streets of small towns and big cities, Democrats and Republicans are waging a fierce battle for control of the state House of Representatives. Just three seats separate haves from have-nots in the 203-member House, where Democrats hold the majority and the power that comes with it: the coveted ability to drive the legislative agenda and, next year, the upper hand in the once-a-decade redistricting process.
With so much at stake, both parties have been feverishly fund-raising, spending, and strategizing to get voters to pull the lever for them Nov. 2 . . .
Battleground House races in the Philadelphia suburbs include Rep. Barbara McIlvaine Smith (D., Chester) against Dan Truitt, Rep. Paul Drucker (D., Montgomery) against Warren Kampf, Rep. Steve Santarsiero (D., Bucks) against Rob Ciervo, Rep. Matt Bradford (D., Montgomery) against Jay Moyer, and Rep. Rick Taylor (D., Montgomery) against Todd Stephens.
G. Terry Madonna, veteran pollster at Franklin and Marshall College, said that given the political stakes, voters could expect to hear a lot in the next few weeks about these and other legislative races.
For starters, there is redistricting. State legislative and congressional districts are redrawn every 10 years based on the census. The process will start in earnest with the new legislature next year. If the GOP controls both chambers, the party could redraw the maps to benefit its candidates.
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My question to people (like the Tea Party members) who rail against “big” government and spending: do you not directly benefit from the services that government provides?
Do you reject unemployment insurance payments when eligible?
Do you return your Social Security checks after collecting payments for three years (the point at which most people have received an amount equal to their contributions)?
Do you skip enrollment in Medicare (we pay very little in contributions) and/or the Part D drug plan?
Have you taken advantage of government-subsidized housing loans, educational loans, business loans, etc?
I would have a lot more respect for people who complain about government spending, especially on social programs, if they weren’t benefiting personally, just like the rest of us.
You can’t be serious.
People who are opposed to these programs are still forced to contribute. You would have to be stupid not to collect a partial return of the money that was taken from you. A lot of us don’t and won’t benefit because over the years government has taken from us way more than the will ever return. Take a look at your pay stub and see home much the taking every pay period. If you are just moderately successful you will never come out ahead.
OK, just a thought, I have a question for you…. would you pay MORE than you are required for your tax bill?
Tea party folks have been pilloried in the liberal mainstream press. The fact is we are going bankrupt, food stamps are NOT stimulus and among other things, our southern border is out of control and this administration sues its own state.
No just a thought, our founders would not be happy.
When the government gets involved, invariably costs go up, especially for those of us NOT subsidized by government.,
This President needs to be voted out. His ideas are more in line with Hugo Chavez than John Adams. Let’s face it, there are some who welcome a cradle to grave government subsidy. But rational people would say, yes, we need government, but not one the usurps the freedoms upon which this country was founded. It is just too much, You are seeing the revolt in the DIVERSITY of the Tea Party movement. But then some of us Americans continue to vote for the likes of Charlie Rangel.
By the way, government subsidized loans are paid back w interest, they are not handouts. And I wonder if the free marketplace would do a better job of lending education money… and then there is the cost of an education as well. Education is a protected “industry” as it is a bastion of liberal excellence. No one is on a bender trying to limit the cost of a college education…. there is no health care like imperative. Result? Some schools will lower the tuition or go out of business… Maybe that is some semblance of the free market working….I’ll take the parochial arguments of Hamilton and Jefferson, and Adams…Yes, they would be aghast.,
Would the founding fathers be happy?
They would no doubt defend the right of all Americans to speak freely. …
Although they would probably be dismayed to see how far these boundaries extend today: e.g.
– The right of an extremist so-called religious group to picket military funerals with signs declaring their deaths as just punishment for this country’s acceptance of homosexuality.
-The newly granted right of unnamed contributors to blitz the airways with campaign ads full of lies and distortions with no accountability
– The right of public figures to whip up such a frenzy of hate that ithey inspire criminal activity….
All protected under the 1st amendment.
By comparison, theTea Party’s stated mission to oppose govenrment spending and higher taxes and to defend their personal freedoms seems pretty tame…..
Until you focus on the messages of Tea Party – supported candidates like Carl Paladino (NY), Sharon Angle (NV), Christine O’Donnell (DE), Joe Miller (AK), Rand Paul( KY). and Pat Toomey (PA)..
These are people who fall far outside the mainstream .They want to end social security, Medicare and unemployment insurance as we know them, access to health insurance for those who cannot pay for it at market rates, a woman’s right to choose – even in cases of rape or incest, any federal involvement in the nation’s public schools,. The list goes on and on.
Tea Partiers defend the right of the country’s richest Americans to get big tax breaks and pay no estate taxes. They support much lower tax rates on unearned income than on earned income. Some, like Pat Toomey, think that corporate taxes should be abolished.
Many reject the notion of a minimum wage. They think the market should decide.wage rates. And if jobs go overseas in search of cheaper labor, so be it.
In other words the poor and those unfortunate enough to have lost their jobs and their homes in the recent downturn should just buck up and fend for themselves because those who have do not want to contribute one tax dollar to those who currently do not have..
The Tea Partiers are overwheminlgy white, older, Republican and financially secure. Good for them. A solid percentage collect social security and have the benefit of Medicare coverage.. Yet they view others as just looking for a handout – paid out of their tax dollars.
Corporations that ship jobs overseas are just doing what good corporate stewards do – maximizing return for their shareholders. Just ask Pat Toomey.
And this Tea Party, represented locally by the Valley Forge Patriots, has put out the call to volunteer to phone bank, lit drop and man the polls for Warren Kampf. The self-proclaimed conservative is apparently happy to have their support and use their GOTV organization to help get him over the top on Nov. 2.
Warren Kampf and the Tea Party. A match made in heaven? Or just a matter of convenience? In either case, voters need to know that Warren has aligned himself with the most conservative elements of the Republican Party while posing as Mr. Middle-of-the-Road in his mailers and in a Times-Herald interview.
Most voters in the 157th do not identify with the Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh worshipping Tea Party.. And they will not vote to support extremists.
My source, for those who will insist Warren has no connection to any local Tea Party group ( aka Valley Forge Patriots), please go to:
The letter to the VF Patriots came from Kampfs campaign mgr soliciting their help. I will not send a tea party supporter to Harrisburg, Kampf you will not get my vote. Your no moderate.
Can you please provide this letter you speak of? Or tell me who Kampf’s manager is — I searched and searched and can’t find that information, so if you have it, please provide it.
If you don’t have this information, please withdraw your comments of “absolutes.”
From the West — the link to the letter is contained at the end of Kate’s comment. In reviewing the link, I see that Kampf’s campaign manager is the signature on the letter.
Here is what the link gives – there is no mention of Warren or anything about his campaign. Do you have an updated link or is this not true?
” The Valley Forge Patriots meeting on October 20th will be moved downstairs at P J Ryan’s due to the Phillies play-off game. This will work out a little better as it is a private room. Pennsylvania State Senator Andy Dinniman will speak from 6 – 6:45pm. He will be greeting our members/his constituents at 5:45pm.
Here is the tentative agenda for the meeting:
We will be continuing the conversation and asking questions on the Federal Healthcare mandate and unconstitutionality of the bill. We have met with Senator Dinniman on several occasions about this as well as addressing the response from Senator Casey. We will also ask some questions on other Pennsylvania issues.
The second half of the meeting will be Get Out The Vote.
This will be our last Get out the Vote meeting before the election on November 2nd. Election info, updates and stuffing will be done at this meeting after our featured speaker.”
Sean D –
This is the information from Michael D’Amicantonio, Kampf Campaign Coordinator
Valley Forge Patriots – Tea Party Conservatives
Volunteers for the Warren Kampf Campaign
From: mark driver
Sent on: Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:15 PM
The Warren Kampf Campaign is looking for volunteers to help out with phone banks, literature drops and various other tasks (stuffing parties, door to door, or delivering signs). For those of you who are unfamiliar with this race, Warren is a Republican challenging an incumbent Democrat for the State House of Representatives in the 157th District. Campaign Headquarters is located at 1708 E. Lancaster Ave. in Paoli. Any time you can give would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to sign up, please call HQ at [masked] or email [address removed] Below is the schedule for our volunteer opportunities:
Monday – Friday 4pm-8pm from now until October 29th. The lists, instructions, and a script will be provided.
Saturdays & Sundays 12 Noon (Pick up) will go every weekend until Election Day. You are encouraged to go out in teams. Maps and already stuffed bags will be provided.
We look forward to working with you!
Kampf Campaign Coordinator
Oh Goodness….so if any liberal group (ACLU, ACORN, Soros-funded media) supports Paul Drucker, that’s bad for him for people who support him who claim to be “moderate.”
Anyone who believes that accepting support from a Tea party group means they are a Tea Party supporter didn’t live through Ross Perot. Ross Perot hated George Bush — personally — and his candidacy split off conservative support to the extent that Clinton was the winner with less than 50% of the popular vote.
I’m not a political scientist, but I do know that there is a difference between the “Tea Party” and the tea party members….I do have friends who are quite conservative and sick and tired of government spending….even TESD is having an EIT meeting tonight — looking for a new source of more revenue. In this difficult time, the motivation for an EIT comes from people already paying it….not someone who wants a new tax. Tax and Spend is a concept that true fiscal conservatives consider a last resort.
So — Kate can call WK and the Tea Party a match made in heaven — as long as she includes the phrase “a matter of convenience.” Accepting support in a competitive election hardly constitutes “aligning himself” with that group. If the Tea Party had to pick a candidate, clearly WK is the fiscal conservative — the basis for the Tea Party’s founding. If they worked with a 3rd party, do you think that party would skim votes from Drucker in the same context as from Kampf?
You cannot have it both ways — you cannot object to my issues with Mr. Drucker owing Dwight Evans for his $1M check….and yet disassociate Mr. Drucker from the slimy politics of Dwight Evans IF you believe that Mr. Kampf taking support from the Tea Party means he aligns himself with that group.
Bush didn’t want any association with Perot — and Perot succeeded in pulling away conservative votes in enough numbers to leave Clinton on top. How many Perot supporters were likely to have chosen Clinton otherwise? Kampf’s Tea Party support is pragmatic — it’s call “strange bedfellows” in political circles.
As I said — I am NOT a political scientist and I dont’ pretend to have studied the details of the electorate over the past 30 years — but I do know that if you are the conservative Republican candidate in an election against someone claiming to be a fiscal conservative, you aren’t going to decline support for a group that wants fiscal control. That WOULD make you an idiot.
ACORN / ACLU / Dwight Evans….. do they define Paul Drucker?
Main Street Values PAC? No one can find them….do they control Paul Drucker?
So Chesterbrook Resident — if you disregard what each candidate campaigns on — and use an affiliation as an excuse — I don’t exactly believe Mr. Kampf “lost your vote.” You’re no moderate either.
I love how the dyed in the wool democrats (Kate and Dariel, sorry Chesterbrook resident) kill the tea party, they try and scare people with this tag line… TEA PARTY!!!!
Yep what you do not know will scare you…
Why take the time to get educated when you can sling mud and make stuff up?
Why would the Tea Party want to support Warren? Well lets see – Paul voted to raise taxes $1 BILLION, voted to raise spending $1 Billion and voted to increase debt by $600 Million… I would say that an organization like the Tea Party which prides itself on fiscal conservative principals would definetly be offended at those black marks on a voting resume…
Warren is not hand in hand with the Tea Party, to call either group an extremist group is pathetic. You are clearly uninformed and your mendacity knows no bounds.
Tea Party folks, thanks for your help. To see people use the words “Tea Party” like they are dirty words I hope only strengthens your resolve. If I was a dem, I would be afraid of you too. Unless of course I took the time to speak with you, attend a meeting and find out what your really about – the talking points I am given as a Dem would be too scary otherwise.
Acorn is okay right?
First, thanks, Pattye, I missed that link.
Second, I read two interesting things in the information that Pattye and others provided…
1. Andy Dinniman spoke to the Tea Party — does that make him an extremist Tea Party member also? (I think we can agree it doesn’t, which means the same has to go for Kampf)
2. The Kampf campaign asked for volunteers. I don’t think that asking for volunteers makes Kampf a member of the Tea Party any more than Drucker asking for volunteers from labor unions would make him an automatic member of a labor union.
3. I don’t believe that Kampf espouses the most radical views of the Tea Party any more than Drucker espouses the most radical views of ACORN (who, by the way, he voted to continue providing with state funding.) Every group has “extremes” — I don’t believe either of these gentlemen fall into that category. The differences between them have been focused on classic northeast issues: fiscal responsibility, the size of government, the role of gov’t in the economy, etc. Both have a record to compare to these issues and let the voters decide.
Everything else on this site (the comments, not Pattye’s posts) have now become ridiculously silly partisan drivel a few weeks out from election day…and, once again, way off topic.
I agree with you, From The West – although I support Drucker based on his platform and his record, I believe that Kampf is an honorable man who is just as committed to serving his constituency and is no more an extremist than Drucker is. A lot of the rhetoric IS silly.
In terms of which groups the candidates align themselves with or accept contributions from, they obviously are not going to turn down monetary support or the opportunity for votes. I don’t worry about that much since most politicians tend to serve and vote according to their own core beliefs after the elections anyway.
Why is it you believe Warren is not an extremist? He marches with the most extreme group in our country – the Tea Party. He once was the head of a group in Pennsylvania seeking to seat highly conservative Supreme Court justices, and in fact, supported the nomination of Harriet Miers (remember her?). He was the head of the Bush campaign in Tredyffrin. He has been endorsed by the NRA. He is pro life and endorsed by Chester County Action – one of the most extreme groups in Chester County. He pretends to be a fiscal conservative to win over Republicans, yet he has raised taxes in Tredyffrin twice. He cares about his constituents so much – he doesn’t care what office he runs for!!! State Senate, County Commissioner, even Lt Governor he’s thrown his hat in the ring for. Is that your definition of a moderate?
I’m not a Kampf supporter in the least, but…
So your idea of extremism is someone who is an NRA member,Bush supporter, etc. Wow. Holy Liberal land. I would say, your viewpoint labels you as an extremist also….
Actually, I dont think Warren has any real core beliefs. He’s Boyce social conservative, yet he courts the social conservative vote. Ken Buckwalter is the real deal there. Warren is about Warren. I for one am offended by him and how he’s tarnished the GOP brand. He did have help. CT was complicit in turning the entire organization over to Warren.
The issue of his claim that he did not deplete the Rainy Day Fund went unanswered. Above all, I need to know the people I vote for have integrity. Warren has no integrity. He believes all of us to be fools. In 2007, he ran on anti tax platform. Then, right after the election, he raised taxes. For me, raising the taxes was not an issue. Rather, it was the way he did it. He was sneaky and subversive about it. Do we really need that in Harrisburg? I see alot of so called Republicans up here casting stones at Paul while their own backyards are not clean. I don’t believe these people ate that stupid. I think they simply want an R in the seat. That to me is not the reason you vote for people. You vote based on intrinsics. I don’t agree with all of Pauls positions. The key is , they are Pauls positions. Warren has torn our community apart . I actually agree more with the Democrat than the Republican in this race.
I supported Guy in 2008 and I supported Ken this year. Our party is not about one person. Rather, it is about a set of core principles that many have forgotten about. When people call Warren a liar, I have to agree with that assessment, which is sad because it forces me to look at my party. How does somebody with integrity like Ken lose to Warren. There is only one answer. The GOP organization is corrupt. There is no other way an inferior candidate like Warren wins a primary.
I can only hope that enough of us have the clarity to not vote for Warren otherwise, our party is doomed.
from the west, can you enumerate the “radical” views that the “tea party” espouses?
Here’s my problem with worshiping the words of the “Founding Fathers” –
– They were all middle-aged white men, not at all representative of the diverse multi-cultural America we live in today
-They were the “elite” – educated, land-owners, many slave “owners” – hardly representative of the average American
-They lived centuries ago! While basic beliefs such as those expressed in the Declaration of Independence have stood the test of time, not everything in the Constitution has – hence new amendments that extended rights to ALL people.
I can’t understand people who believe that the Constitution is a “sacred” document not to be reviewed and updated (with great care) to reflect the realities of life in 21st century America.
Just for the record, I am not Chesterbrook resident.
middle aged white men
lived centuries ago
wow… same playbook…
At least we agree on one thing… “amendments”.. proof the constitution works…
I guess shakespeare is no longer relevant because he lived centuries ago? I am thinking about this and can’t believe the insanity of this comment. Many of our founding fathers were schooled in the philosophies of ancient Greece and Rome, and were influenced in “western thought” by these men.
Who should have written the constitution? Let Obama and Wright rewrite the constitiution. Well they are de facto trying to do it. And we have another revolution on our hands.
The great natural order of decency, belief in God ( oh gosh, did I use a dirty word?) family, honor, duty, will be restored.
Here is a link to a story showing Warren Kampf marching with his fellow Tea Party activists:
Is that proof enough for you?
And, yes, their platform is to abolish any form of government help – social security, medicare, medicaid. Warren even states on his website he wants to abolish pensions! Thinks all retirement plans should be 401k personal contribution plans.
Lucky for Warren he has a nice trust fund, so he doesn’t have to worry about his retirement. Do you?
S in Paoli Woods:
Many of us hold to this quaint idea of personal responsibility, i.e., I am responsible for saving money for my retirement and providing for my family’s financial security.
I’m sure you’ve noticed the tremendous challenges posed by underfunded, defined benefit plans in government – if you attended last night’s EIT session, the clear message was that the PSERs contribution is THE major challenge for the TESD and school districts statewide. Social Security (also an underfunded, defined benefit plan) is now paying out more than it’s taking in and the oldest baby boomers are just turning 65. As private business did years ago, it is of critical importance that these plans be transitioned to defined contribution plans – left unchanged, they could literally bankrupt us.
Also, absent a financial disclosure proving it, I would respectfully ask that you, and others, cease with the “Warren has a trust fund”/class warfare rant.
I stand by my assertion that Warren Kampf would not be publicly associating himself with local Tea Party groups if he disagreed with their positions on major issues.
One cannot escape the association of the Tea Party with national candidates receiving their support. And they are a frightening bunch – for many different reasons.
Even leaving some room for differences between local organizations, I still think it is notable that Kampf has put out a call for help from this group when the well-organized Chester and Montgomery County Republican Parties have provided their substantial resources to help in his campaign.
Andrea, you’re too intelligent to compare Paul’s receipt of a check to benefit the Paoli rail yard project – from a colleague and the current chair of Appropriations – with that of Warren’s soliciting GOTV help from a group supporting far-right candidates. It’s an apples to oranges comparison.
As if Warren would have turned down the same cardboard check moment from Dwight Evans had he been our State Rep……especially given his well-established appreciation for cardboard checks.
Puleeze. Those of you supporting Warren will not be deterred by any facts. I understand. Likewise for those of us who strongly support Paul’s re-election.
The tidbit about Warren’s Tea Party connection – and it is real- is aimed at those who are still gathering information and making up their minds.
Tea Party is, to some, not a frightening bunch. No matter how much it is said, the truth cannot be mangled by egalitarians and leftists. People of all persuasions are tickled ( not down their legs, to paraphrase Mr Matthews) by the prospect of taking the country back from leftists.
Your whole paradigm represented in your comment is false, to most. Obviously not all.
Pattye, I’ll repeat what I said on July 3rd when you posed the same question:
“Looking at America today, this is what the Founding Fathers would see:
They would see an America that is still very much a “work in progress”, but trying to get it right. One that tries to hold on to timeless values, while trying to get better. A country still struggling to provide equal opportunity, not equal results, to its citizens and not there yet. Whose people and leaders still struggle with greed, envy, dishonesty, prejudice, incivility and every other human frailty.
On the other hand, the very survival of this “grand experiment” of theirs, started in 1776, is a miracle beyond their imagination. A country where even in recent weeks, people passionately debate the words they wrote in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as they make laws, appoint leaders and consider decisions. Where the transfer of power is still orderly, and the checks and balances and federal/state/local balance still basically work. A place of tremendous progress toward “all men are created equal” with an African-American in the White House, a women as Speaker of the House, and people of both genders and all races and religions with access to positions of power and opportunity for advancement.
More broadly, they would see a country of great wealth and power, which has used much of that to improve the human condition here and around the world. A country that has used its military might not to conquer, but rather to protect its freedom, to seek liberty for others, and to help, for more than 200 years – a country that through hard work and ingenuity has improved the health, communication and standard of living of people everywhere. The most generous country is human history, whose wealthiest, along with its ordinary citizens, give their resources and their time to help others – whose best and brightest young people serve others at home and around the world through the U.S. military, the Peace Corps, Teach for America, the Clinton Foundation, etc. etc.
Finally, they would see a country that still celebrates and tries to honor what they did and the words they wrote, 234 years later. I think the Founding Fathers would, and should, be happy and extremely proud. Happy 4th of July to all.”
Thank you Mike.
I appreciate your candor — and I also understand that all this rhetoric is still targeted to the undecided and “independent” voters. My daughter who has long since registered in another state was still on the Independent mailing list this year, and we got upwards of a dozen Drucker mailers addressed to her…which is why I have taken up the whole notion of running on your own record. I have yet to see a Drucker mailer that talked about what he has done except in broad platitudes.
I also stand by the comments I made about Ross Perot and the reasons the Kampf campaign (as demonstrated in the email Pattye posted above) is reaching out to a party that claims as its foundation “fiscal conservatism.” Dems are very careful never to repeat negative terms associated with their side….which is why TEA PARTY gets capitalized and ACORN and the like are not even explained.
Drucker and Kampf do have different ideas — it was Drucker who attempted to co-opt the term of fiscal conservative and whose literature has tried to portray Kampf as a tax and spend supervisor. And I am clued in enough to be able to repeat that I believe the check from Dwight Evans — WITH DE in the picture — was a downpayment from the state democratic party on votes that Mr. Drucker would ultimatly cast in the referenced “$1B” tax increase votes. And I also still stand behind my criticism of Mr. Drucker’s response to the pension problem and his efforts to fix it….because it wasn’t a fix — it was just a different price tag on more of the same.
Attended the funeral today of a friend on the Federal bench….reminded of the diversity of our electorate and all that we ask of each other. I just want people to vote for the values and outcomes they want — and not to be dissuaded by vague references to things like the Tea Party….you can scare people with extremes in whatever direction you cast them…..
Andrea BINGO! I have said for years that DEMS never repeat negative terms associated with their side.
They, to their detriment, will not police their own,. but rally around them no matter how ridiculous it is, and how blatantly dishonest. It is rather un adult like.
Kate and some of the others are easily revealed by their rhetoric. I am just so grateful that we have the annointed one as leader in chief to tell us how stupid we are because we just don’t understand how much he is trying to help us. Democrats who are not leftists are joining TEA PARTIES.. Yes, and what about ACORN, that bastion of rectitude. Locally it is time for new blood,
Drucker has to go. If Kampf fails, he would have to go too. But you won’t hear that from DEmocrats. They are, in their own conundrum of a world, always right. It’s the ideology, stupid!!!